What the hearing was, where and when

• Date & venue: Wednesday, July 26, 2023, in Room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building.

• Host: House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs (Chair: Rep. Glenn Grothman, R-WI). Members driving the effort included Reps. Tim Burchett (R-TN) and Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL); Ranking Member Robert Garcia (D-CA) led for Democrats. Oversight Committee

• Title: “Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency.” Oversight Committee

Who testified and their roles

1. David Grusch – former Air Force intelligence officer and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency detailee; served with the DoD’s UAP Task Force/AARO predecessor. He appeared as a whistleblower alleging a long-running crash-retrieval and reverse-engineering program hidden from Congress. CBS News

2. Cmdr. David Fravor (USN, Ret.) – former commanding officer of VFA-41, the pilot linked to the 2004 USS Nimitz “Tic Tac” encounter. He gave firsthand testimony about that sortie. Northeastern Global News

3. Ryan Graves – former Navy F/A-18 pilot and then-head of Americans for Safe Aerospace. He focused on safety and reporting issues and “routine” sightings by aircrews. Oversight Committee

An official transcript and full video are publicly available. If you want the exact wording, the Congressional transcript and C-SPAN recording are the primary sources. Congress.gov

The central claims, by witness

1) David Grusch’s allegations (largely second-hand, by his own description)

• Crash retrieval & reverse-engineering: Grusch said he was “informed in the course of [his] official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program,” but he himself was denied access to it. He based this on interviews with about 40 people over four years. He repeatedly offered to provide specifics only in a SCIF (closed setting). Wikipedia

• “Non-human biologics”: When Rep. Nancy Mace asked if bodies were recovered with alleged craft, Grusch answered “biologics came with some of these recoveries… nonhuman.” He cited the assessment of people with “direct knowledge,” not his own observation. The exchange is on the official transcript. Congress.gov

• Timeline hints: In separate questioning and press, Grusch suggested U.S. awareness dating back decades; at the hearing he stayed general in open session. (ABC’s straight report notes he asserted awareness “in the 1930s,” an item he’s raised in media around the hearing.) ABC News

• Retaliation & intimidation: He alleged reprisals for his disclosures and said he knew of people harmed during cover-ups; details offered only for a SCIF. Wikipedia

Important caveat: In the open hearing Grusch did not present physical evidence, documents, or names of programs; he said those were classified and could be given in closed session. That limitation—and whether such evidence actually exists—became a main point of pushback after the hearing. CBS News

2) Cmdr. David Fravor’s 2004 “Tic Tac” account (first-hand)

• Event: Off the USS Nimitz near Southern California (Nov 2004), Fravor and wingman were vectored to a visual contact: a white, Tic-Tac-shaped object with no visible control surfaces. He described abrupt accelerations and maneuvers he considered far beyond known performance envelopes. He said, “we have nothing close to it.” Congress.gov

• Duration & corroboration: Fravor emphasized multiple sensors/observers and several minutes of visual contact across aircrews that day. (The hearing revisited points known from earlier Navy incident reporting.) Northeastern Global News

3) Ryan Graves’ safety & reporting concerns (first-hand / community-wide)

• “Routine” encounters: Graves said military aviators repeatedly encounter UAP, especially along training ranges, and that pilots often avoid reporting due to stigma or process gaps. He pushed for standardized, stigma-free reporting and better sensor data capture. CBS News

• Public-safety angle: He argued that unidentified objects in crowded airspace are a safety risk regardless of origin, warranting better collection, review, and transparency. Oversight Committee

What lawmakers pressed on

• Bipartisan tone: Members from both parties framed the topic as national security and oversight rather than belief in aliens. Grothman thanked Burchett and Luna for pushing the session; Garcia praised a fair, substantive hearing; Moskowitz highlighted bipartisan interest. Congress.gov

• Where’s the evidence? Reps Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others asked where to look; Grusch said he’d provide program names and locations in a SCIF. (This aligns with the transcript summary and post-hearing reports.) Wikipedia

• Next steps: In the days that followed, several members (e.g., Burchett, Gaetz, Luna, Moskowitz) floated forming a select committee with subpoena power to pursue records and compel testimony. WBFF

Pentagon and AARO pushback (before and after the hearing)

• Immediate stance (summer 2023): DoD spokesperson Sue Gough stated that the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) had “not discovered any verifiable information” to back claims of programs involving possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials, past or present. This statement was circulated by AP, CBS, ABC and others at the time. AP News

• Post-hearing criticism: Then-AARO director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick called parts of the hearing “insulting” to AARO staff and said Grusch hadn’t cooperated with AARO’s investigation. (Kirkpatrick later left AARO; his comment was widely reported). AP News

• Later formal report (March 2024): AARO’s Historical Record Report, Vol. 1 concluded it found no verifiable evidence of recovered off-world craft, no “hidden” crash-retrieval programs, and assessed many long-circulating claims as circular reporting or misidentification of unrelated classified programs. The Pentagon summarized those conclusions publicly. U.S. Department of War+1

Policy and legislative context

• Senate declassification push: Just before the hearing, a bipartisan Senate group led by Majority Leader Chuck Schumer introduced a UAP records amendment modeled on the JFK Records Act, aiming for a presumption of disclosure and a records collection. Versions of that effort made it into later defense legislation, albeit watered-down during negotiations. Senate Democratic Leadership

Key moments and exchanges (from the transcript/video)

• “Non-human biologics” line: The headline-grabber came during Rep. Nancy Mace’s questioning of Grusch:

  Mace: “If you believe we have crashed craft… do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?”
  Grusch: “As I have stated publicly already… biologics came with some of these recoveries… Non-human.”
  That’s in the official transcript. Grusch immediately emphasized he was relaying others’ assessments. Congress.gov

• Fravor’s capability claims: Fravor told Rep. Jamie Raskin that he was not a UFO enthusiast but stood by the extraordinary performance he witnessed during the 2004 intercept, saying “we have nothing close to it.” Congress.gov

• Routine sightings: Graves reiterated that sightings are not rare for aviators and stressed the need to remove stigma and modernize reporting. (CBS and the committee materials recap this.) CBS News

What the hearing did—and didn’t—establish

Established:

• Congress logged on-the-record testimony from two first-hand military aviators (Fravor and Graves) and one whistleblower (Grusch) claiming awareness of a covert crash-retrieval regime. That put UAPs squarely on the oversight docket. Congress.gov

• Lawmakers in both parties publicly called for greater transparency, better reporting channels, and potential closed-door follow-ups. Congress.gov

Not established in open session:

• No physical evidence of non-human craft or materials was presented. Grusch relied on second-hand accounts and declined specifics outside a SCIF. CBS News

• The Pentagon/AARO line, then and since, is that no verifiable proof of crash-retrieval programs or extraterrestrial materials has surfaced in official reviews—including a broad historical look released in 2024. AP News

Why it mattered

1. Pilot safety & airspace management: Graves’ testimony reframed the issue as hazard management. Regardless of origin, unidentified objects in training ranges are a collision risk and demand streamlined reporting, better sensors, and analysis. CBS News

2. Oversight & classification: Grusch’s claims—if true—imply unauthorized special-access activity beyond standard congressional visibility. Even if not, the hearing spotlighted how classification and stigma can block standard oversight. CBS News

3. Public trust: Members like Grothman and Garcia repeatedly tied the issue to transparency and trust in institutions. The hearing upped pressure for document releases and briefings, feeding into the Senate’s records-disclosure push. Congress.gov

4. The science question: The official stance after a year of extra scrutiny remains “no verified extraterrestrial tech”—but also a recognition that a subset of cases lack ready explanation and need better data. U.S. Department of War

The bottom line, as of now

• Grusch told Congress there are crash retrievals, reverse-engineering efforts, and non-human biologics associated with some recoveries—claims he says he can back up in classified settings. No open-session proof was offered. Congress.gov

• Fravor reaffirmed the Tic Tac contact as a highly unusual first-hand event with performance beyond known aircraft. Congress.gov

• Graves stressed frequency, safety, and stigma, urging a modern reporting system and transparency. CBS News

• Pentagon/AARO: no verified evidence of alien craft, bodies, or a secret crash-retrieval program, a view they re-asserted in a formal 2024 report after deeper dives into historical claims. U.S. Department of War

Sources & primary documents

• Official hearing page & witness list: House Oversight (Hearing Date, title, witnesses). Oversight Committee

• Official transcript (PDF): U.S. Congress transcript of July 26, 2023 hearing exchanges (includes “non-human biologics” Q&A). Congress.gov

• Full video: C-SPAN coverage of the session. C-SPAN

• Member statements & bipartisan framing: Transcript excerpts showing remarks from Grothman, Garcia, Moskowitz. Congress.gov

• AP recap (straight news): Summary of claims and Pentagon reply. AP News

• CBS takeaways (includes DoD/AARO statement by Sue Gough): CBS News

• AARO Historical Record Report Vol. 1 (DoD, Mar. 2024) and DoD summary briefing: no verified evidence of alien tech; assessment of circular reporting. U.S. Department of War

• Senate declassification push: Schumer-Rounds press release; text of amendment. Senate Democratic Leadership